Episode 4: Supporting Mental Health with a Wellness Recovery Action Plan (WRAP)

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;41;20

Chet Tschetter

Hello and welcome to the podcast. Wellness matters through direct support. This is a podcast developed by the University of Minnesota's Institute on Community Integration, and it's focused on the importance of health, wellness and self-care for direct support workers. My name is Chet Tschetter, and I'm a national workforce consultant, and I'm also a direct support worker. I'm here with my colleague Mark Olson.

00;00;41;23 - 00;01;03;04

Mark Olson

My name is Mark Olson and I also am someone that's provided direct support for many years. I am the co-host of the podcast, and I am very glad to welcome, my colleague Susan O'Nell to the podcast today, and she will introduce the rest of our guests who are going to be talking about wrap and what wrap is.

00;01;03;04 - 00;01;09;26

Mark Olson

So, Susan, if you'd be so kind as introduce yourself and then move forward and introduce our guests.

00;01;09;28 - 00;01;40;29

Susan O'Nell

Sure. Well, as you said, my name is Susan. And I'm super happy to be here. And I know that you guys invited me because, you know, I have a long history of being a direct support professional, that I did that work for many years, and even to this day, maintain a really close relationship with a fellow I met years ago who used to live with me and, you know, kind of keep my eye on how things have gone for him and stay connected to him in a in a real close way to make sure his life is going well.

00;01;41;01 - 00;02;12;09

Susan O'Nell

I now write curriculum for direct support professionals and, and direct that here at the Institute. So that's my that's my role now. But I think you guys invited me here because you want to be here about how I use Wrap, which is wellness recovery action planning to kind of help me stay well and, stay healthy as I go about my caregiving roles and how maybe DSPs could use that as well in their caregiving, to help themselves stay healthy and well as they manage the many things I have to manage.

00;02;12;17 - 00;02;30;24

Susan O'Nell

When you guys invited me to do that. And we'll talk more in a little bit about what does rap actually mean? But, when you invited me to do that, I really wanted to invite two friends of mine. And I'll just give you a brief, overview of how I met these folks, and then they'll get a chance to each introduce themselves.

00;02;30;26 - 00;02;49;22

Susan O'Nell

But Asia and I Asia owns. And I we met at a mental health conference years ago. And, to be honest, most of our relationship is through Facebook and letters and things like that, but we keep in touch with each other since that day we clicked. I was really impressed with the work I was seeing her do through an organization called poetry for Personal Power.

00;02;49;28 - 00;03;07;21

Susan O'Nell

We've just stayed in touch, and I've been I've been intrigued and excited by all the things I see Asia doing in her community to, to keep things going. And I know self-care is hard to do when you're a busy person like that, so I'm, I'm going to. So I just thought she. And she has a wrap and she's a wrap.

00;03;07;21 - 00;03;29;21

Susan O'Nell

Facilitators in that. Right? Asia. Yes. Yeah. So, so that's why I invited Asia. Because I know she's going to she's going to give us a really good perspective on, rap in terms of those kinds of things. And then I invited Stan because Stan and I went through wrap facilitator training together. He came all the way to Minnesota, even though he's based in California.

00;03;29;23 - 00;03;57;12

Susan O'Nell

Stan asked for the facilitator training. When you do rap, the proper way, you really have to have at least two facilitators, if not more, to make it work. And Stan was looking for some, a co facilitator, and he reached out to me because he wanted to do, a rap seminar that was focused, that actually had direct support professionals and, people receiving services together in a group, building their Raps together.

00;03;57;12 - 00;04;14;25

Susan O'Nell

And I thought, what an awesome idea. Let's, let's try this. And this was before Covid and we did it hybrid and Stan had to manage all that technology and keep the classroom going. And I just got to pop in on video. But so I was I thought Stan would be a great person to talk about this today, with us.

00;04;14;27 - 00;04;19;16

Susan O'Nell

So with that, maybe Asia, you want to give yourself a little introduction.

00;04;19;18 - 00;04;41;09

Aja Owens

Hello, everybody. My name is AJ Owens. I am a native of Saint Louis, Missouri, and associate mentioned, we met through a portion of our program that I'm a part of. And, you know, I just wanted to start by saying I'm an artist, I'm a poet. And I joined this program because it was a program that intertwined, you know, arts and wellness.

00;04;41;09 - 00;05;02;21

Aja Owens

And, we talk about how everyone goes to adversities, but when we share what we go through, it helps others to know that they can overcome those challenges. And we always talk about like how important it is to find your personal power. You know, like, what is that thing that helps you to get through tough times? For me, it's writing, but for someone else, you know, it could be just gardening or something like that.

00;05;02;21 - 00;05;33;08

Aja Owens

So, this program has really evolved over the years to, now we talk about peer support. We actually work with others, who are in recovery. And, just kind of help people to come up with a plan to, you know, just accomplish a lot of their life's goals. And so that's where we started to use wrap Wrap plan, a wellness recovery action plan to help others to just, again, you know, come up with ways to, do the daily things that they do and achieve those goals.

00;05;33;08 - 00;05;49;13

Aja Owens

So I've worked in the community for over 20 years just doing advocacy and, you know, working, you know, primarily with the youth population in the unhoused community. And, so these wellness plans have a really, really have so many, that we've been able to work with.

00;05;49;16 - 00;05;56;00

Susan O'Nell

Thank you. And now let's hear a little bit from Stan. I'd like to hear your introduction.

00;05;56;03 - 00;06;32;12

Stan Schmidt

All right. Well, thank you, Susan, for inviting me. As, Susan was saying, we met, at a session. Yeah, outside of Minneapolis. And, rap was something that, I always wanted to bring to the program, but frankly, it just seemed like an impossible feat. And, anyway, we got that done, but I work for a company community integrated work program, and we specialize in working with people who have behavioral excesses.

00;06;32;14 - 00;07;01;04

Stan Schmidt

These are folks who literally couldn't be in the community unless their inner program. We've been take, folks who are in forensic homes. So they come with a variety of issues. But she is known for working with people who have these challenging behaviors. As a matter of fact, we offer, services to, almost a quarter of the regional centers in California for 24 hour crisis response.

00;07;01;06 - 00;07;27;26

Stan Schmidt

So we have a lot of expertise in how to handle challenging behaviors. The one thing that I always felt was lacking, however, was to be able to teach clients, skills that would put them in charge. We still, to some degree, go by an old model where, you know, the professional is correct and we're the one that is administering and telling people what they need to work on.

00;07;27;29 - 00;07;56;22

Stan Schmidt

Even though we do person centered planning and all of those things, I think the area of behavior change is, the one place where we haven't done enough and making sure clients are in charge. It's their life. They know themselves better than anyone. And when I was able to work with Susan, we really brought that home to the clients and staff all in the same room, which I felt was also a,

00;07;56;25 - 00;08;19;20

Stan Schmidt

Well, what would you say? It was exactly the way I wanted this to happen. Because if you believe in rap, you know we're all equal. We all face, similar issues in many respects. And, I went to clients to see that. So we took off our other hats. Why? We're in the room. We we did an eight session, course with them.

00;08;19;26 - 00;08;22;08

Stan Schmidt

I don't know if you want more than that right now or.

00;08;22;10 - 00;08;41;13

Susan O'Nell

It's not some standard. And that's exactly one of the things that so intrigued me about the program and why you wanted to bring rap, because it was the ultimate in, shaking up the, you know, the boundaries. We have a lot of times that are, you know, we need healthy boundaries, obviously, and we need boundaries and roles and things like that.

00;08;41;13 - 00;08;52;09

Susan O'Nell

But to be able to work equally next to people, who are receiving the services we're delivering is a really powerful, is it just a powerful frame?

00;08;52;11 - 00;09;15;28

Stan Schmidt

Yes, I thought so, too. And as I was somewhat preparing for today, I was looking over the roster and, to be honest with you, I forgot the exact date that we started, but it's it's been some four years ago, something like that. And all of our clients that were in that class are still here with us, except for one.

00;09;16;01 - 00;09;32;06

Stan Schmidt

And I thought that that had something to do with that and that we really built a community with these guys. We did a couple, rap pal sessions afterwards, which I think kind of kept this stuff fresh, but, it was exactly what I wanted it to be.

00;09;32;09 - 00;09;33;09

Susan O'Nell

Awesome. Thank you.

00;09;33;13 - 00;09;53;29

Mark Olson

Thank you, Stan and Susan and, Asia. And we're going to get into some questions here shortly. That kind of, go into you talking a little more in-depth about what rap is and, and how it's used and how it works. And, the first question I'm going to ask is, first, Susan, and maybe she will use the two of you.

00;09;53;29 - 00;10;00;05

Mark Olson

I don't know, but it's really just simply explain what is rap.

00;10;00;08 - 00;10;22;26

Susan O'Nell

And I really think it's important that we give credit where credit is due. So the, I'm going to just spend like two minutes kind of making sure some of the key and most important things about rap are happening include ING, making sure that folks know there are some reputable places to check in on rap. And I know you guys will have links, near this podcast to help people get there, but, yeah, I just want to go to the source.

00;10;22;26 - 00;10;44;10

Susan O'Nell

So there's two places that you should think about. One is the Copeland Center and the other is the advocates for human potential. They carry all the books that are sanctioned by rap. I do want to make sure that people realize rap has a huge and rich history. It comes out of the mental health area and, it really is about empowerment, self-direction.

00;10;44;10 - 00;11;05;17

Susan O'Nell

It was developed by folks, led by Mary Ellen Copeland, but developed by a number of folks who, had been basically told that they were lucky to, you know, take their meds and stay in their homes and, and receive the help that they were going to have. They wanted more for their lives. And they, got together and started to figure out how that could be.

00;11;05;17 - 00;11;33;20

Susan O'Nell

And so the rap history is a rich one. It has a real powerful, powerful base to it. And it comes from that peer model. And we heard Stan talk about like that peer and age to talk about peers. It's about people helping people with unconditional positive regard. And it is it's it's incredibly powerful. The process of a rap, developing a rap and being in that kind of community with people, then working in your rap can be quite powerful too.

00;11;33;22 - 00;11;54;08

Susan O'Nell

So it's been used outside of the mental health community. It's moved into a lot of different communities now. And, caregivers is a is a major place because caregiver wellness is always at risk because you're doing a lot. And so a rap can be a great way to organize, how how you are going to come together and keep yourself healthy in the world.

00;11;54;11 - 00;12;20;27

Susan O'Nell

Person centered, person directed, self-determined, paired, supported. It can't be a rap if it's not 100% voluntary and if it's not owned by the person. So, it's not like, it's not like a support plan, a typical support plan. This is really the person's plan. And they only share what they want with you. And it's built on these five recovery principles that are important hope, personal responsibility, education, self-advocacy, and support.

00;12;20;27 - 00;12;36;12

Susan O'Nell

And they turn out to be very powerful when you start to apply them to your rap. And I think that's the big picture and things I wanted to make sure, folks knew about rap. And I want you to make sure you get to those links if you want to learn more and get to those good sources we talked about earlier.

00;12;36;14 - 00;12;46;28

Mark Olson

And we will have those links available, on the podcast site when we put this up. So you'll be able to find the Copeland Center right from our, resources.

00;12;46;28 - 00;12;53;27

Chet Tschetter

So Stan or Asia, do you have anything you would like to add to what you just told us about a rap?

00;12;53;29 - 00;13;13;19

Aja Owens

Yeah, I just wanted to add, because I definitely think that, one of the things I just kind of want to emphasize first is, you know, how so they mentioned that is self-directed. So definitely emphasizing that your rap plan is, specific to you. You know, no rap plan will be the same. Also, you know, that you can do a rap plan for just about anything.

00;13;13;21 - 00;13;31;29

Aja Owens

You know, some people may do it because they're in recovery, but some people may want to do a rap plan, you know, to plan their wedding, you know, hey, if I'm planning my wedding, these are the people that I would like to be by me because they can help calm me down. But these are the people that you might want to keep away from me because they're kind of stressing me out, you know?

00;13;32;01 - 00;13;57;10

Aja Owens

So, you know, being being very specific about the things that you need and also the things that you don't need. And one of the things I really like about, you know, developing the strength, the, the rap plan is that, again, you know, you don't have to feel bad about the things that, you know, you feel are important to you because when you are in crisis or when you are in need, you know, this is what is going to help you.

00;13;57;13 - 00;14;10;00

Susan O'Nell

Yeah, very good point. And everything is very unique. And we actually like family. Raps are a great thing too. There's just all sorts of ways you can do a rap. It can and just the tools are very, very powerful.

00;14;10;02 - 00;14;13;20

Mark Olson

There's always that one person that, you know, during the wedding planning.

00;14;13;22 - 00;14;56;16

Stan Schmidt

Yeah. You know, I was you guys got on to weddings. I have a couple neighbors who are wedding planners and they always look so relaxed. And I think maybe they have a rap that I'm not there. But what is compelling to me is the story, as Susan was alluding to. There is a rich history, and when people understand the story of Mary Ellen Copeland and in particular her mother, and then that whole community that eventually were shaped through, shared experiences and what they understood was they all had some ways of coping, but they never had a place to really put it in print or, make sure that they remember.

00;14;56;16 - 00;15;19;04

Stan Schmidt

And that's the whole idea of the rap is you can remember what triggers you. You can remember, what makes you feel better. And of course, this idea of your, your best self is important, because if you don't know what that looks like, you're going to have a hard time maintaining it. So, I just, I there's just nothing that I don't love about it.

00;15;19;07 - 00;15;46;01

Stan Schmidt

I love the folks who are involved with the Copeland Center, such warm and caring people. And these are people who really are the forgotten folks. The folks that without, some of these these, these wellness recovery plans would probably not be able to do what they do. So it's, it's so, refreshing to to be among people who have found, some answers, at least for themselves.

00;15;46;03 - 00;16;04;07

Susan O'Nell

Yeah. When, you know, Stan, you really reminded me of something that would when hit with, I think, our direct support audience pretty well, which is, you know, direct support work is a pretty lonely job at this point because you're, you're often helping people one on one in their community, but you might not have peers of your own to check in with.

00;16;04;09 - 00;16;25;00

Susan O'Nell

And, often I find when I talk to providers of services about rap or you hear them talking about they're so eager to get it to the people receiving services. But I think if they got it to the direct support professionals and the management teams and the organization as a whole and made that organization healthy and well and gave people the tools there, that would be the place to start.

00;16;25;00 - 00;16;26;13

Susan O'Nell

A lot of times, I think.

00;16;26;16 - 00;16;50;28

Stan Schmidt

Right, absolutely. There's a place here in Sacramento called Crestwood, Residential Behavioral Health, I believe, and they go from the top to the bottom. Everybody has a wrap plan there. And I think that is the way to go. Because who can do this work without knowing, what is going to potentially trigger you or, how to keep yourself,

00;16;51;00 - 00;16;53;28

Susan O'Nell

Healthy and the power of community and peers.

00;16;54;00 - 00;16;55;15

Stan Schmidt

Absolutely.

00;16;55;17 - 00;17;11;29

Chet Tschetter

That was just going to I was going to ask a question about that. I've heard all three of you, Stan, Susan in Asia talk about community. So, tell us, like, why that's so important to have that connection of community?

00;17;12;01 - 00;17;42;27

Stan Schmidt

Well, for me, I tell everybody that everybody struggles. Everybody struggles with something. It's just that until you talk about it and find a way to talk about it, you feel like you're the only one or you're you're embarrassed to divulge it or whatever. And this is what we found in our group is when we started off and and as a facilitator, facilitators know that you've kind of revealed a bit about your own struggles.

00;17;42;27 - 00;18;06;17

Stan Schmidt

Not every detail, but you've got to reveal something, because ultimately, people need to all, you know, see that, you know, you've you've had this issue and you've found a way to, maintain some sort of, mental health even with that. And then, of course, you bring in wrap and explain, well, you know, this happens. This is what I do.

00;18;06;19 - 00;18;30;00

Stan Schmidt

What is in the toolbox? What are we going to do if if something should come up? But the community is, is is very important because, you share a bond after this. For instance, the the training that we had in Minneapolis, was, was exactly that. We were there for five days. We got a lot of information.

00;18;30;02 - 00;18;48;29

Stan Schmidt

And then at the end, people told their stories and then it was like, oh, wow. Okay. I, you know, wow, you you experienced all of those things. But here you are, at your best self. So, the community's completely critical.

00;18;49;01 - 00;18;54;05

Susan O'Nell

Thinking. I really want to hear from Asia on that one, too. I love which one said.

00;18;54;08 - 00;18;59;06

Mark Olson

Susan's always a facilitator. I love it.

00;18;59;09 - 00;19;29;24

Aja Owens

Yeah, I mean it. Community. The the importance of community in this work. Again, I think that the more people know or realize that they're not the only ones going through tough times. You know, again, it kind of helps give them that hope that, that, that it's possible to overcome those things. And so being able to have that connection because it really just comes down to support, you know, when people feel heard, when people feel supported and they feel valued, it helps.

00;19;29;26 - 00;19;47;24

Aja Owens

First of all, it helps an individual, but collectively it helps us as a community move forward. So I think when we when we think about community, you know, what really just comes to mind is just that ability for us to, you know, to connect and to connect and support each other.

00;19;47;26 - 00;20;12;22

Susan O'Nell

Yeah, I would agree. And I want to say one thing about community is an interesting word. And, one of the powerful things about rap is that it you has to be in community with people you do see as peers for it to work and so, so yes. PS direct support professionals, you know, that meeting with other direct support professionals, there's common experiences they're going to have.

00;20;12;22 - 00;20;38;27

Susan O'Nell

There's common things. And that's a really flexible and fluid thing. Like right now Asia, Stan and I are all in community together, but there might be places where we'd need to be with a different community to really get the peer support. We really need, for that particular issue. So what's really cool about rap is that community kind of ebbs and flows and has different aspects, but it is all about, shared, uplifting of your fellow humans.

00;20;38;29 - 00;20;54;04

Susan O'Nell

And, rap has a real strong values and ethics approach. And, and so you, you know, you just unconditional positive regard, you just keep coming back to that and it just opens your mind to the human experience in a different way.

00;20;54;06 - 00;21;00;27

Chet Tschetter

Oh, thanks, Susan and all three of you I am so grateful for you're taking the time to answer that question.

00;21;00;29 - 00;21;20;04

Mark Olson

I would like to know from each of you. Stan, you you hit on it right away. Is it? It should go from top to bottom. So I'd like to ask each guest, each of you, to share a little bit of your own rap story and what brought you to rap. And let's start this time with Asia.

00;21;20;07 - 00;21;41;22

Aja Owens

My rap plan. And and why rap is so important to me is, Susan kind of mentioned earlier, you know, me personally, I do a lot of community work. And so when you are that person who is is always kind of front and center, really helping others to, you know, come up with their wellness plan and their self-care plan.

00;21;41;25 - 00;22;06;07

Aja Owens

You know, sometimes you tend to put yourself in the back seat. And so for me, you know, when I was introduced to rap, it was kind of very refreshing because it was like, okay, wow, you know, it's me actually taking out the time to think about those things. That one triggers me, that stresses me out, things that, you know, you probably kind of overlook and just kind of keep moving because you feel like you have to help others.

00;22;06;10 - 00;22;36;01

Aja Owens

So rap for me gave me an opportunity to really just, you know, tap into my own, you know, wellness in ways that I can, you know, not just be better for myself, but actually be more of an asset to the community, that I serve. So, you know, it's funny because, again, being a poet, you know, I have a poem that's called alone in a Crowded Room where it just kind of talks about when you're that person that always shows up for everyone else, like who shows up for you.

00;22;36;08 - 00;22;58;22

Aja Owens

And so for me personally, you know, I've dealt with, you know, depression and anxiety and things like that. So once I was introduced to, rap, you know, it really was instrumental in me, you know, just kind of dealing with some of those, deeper inner parts of me, that I don't typically deal with because I'm really focused and concerned with everyone else.

00;22;58;24 - 00;23;26;24

Aja Owens

And so I like something that Susan said earlier, too, because it's not just about, you know, developing a rap plan, but you got to work your plan, too, because if you come up with a plan but you don't execute it, you know, then you can't really understand the, the impact that it can have. But being able to, you know, write my, my rap plan and actually work my, my rap plan, I've seen a lot of, change in myself personally, as well as the people that I interact with in the community.

00;23;26;24 - 00;23;30;27

Aja Owens

So, you know, rap for me has been very, very rewarding.

00;23;31;00 - 00;23;33;05

Mark Olson

Stan, do you share, please?

00;23;33;07 - 00;24;03;20

Stan Schmidt

Yes. So I think for, for many people, certainly the people that I met in the training class, it seemed like there was maybe one incident or a defining moment for them that made them realize that they could use a little more support. And I think for me, it was similar. And I, I felt that, you know, the work that I do, is challenging.

00;24;03;23 - 00;24;23;21

Stan Schmidt

Most recently I went back to part time, or I should say, I went to part time for the first time in my life, I was going to retire. I just, my boss didn't want me to retire, so she just asked me what I wanted and needed, and I let her know, but that was something that I probably would not have been able to do in the past.

00;24;23;23 - 00;24;50;14

Stan Schmidt

So what I, what I was experiencing was a challenging work life. Just before. Well, actually, I think, just before I did this or after, I should say, I became the regional director, so I was in charge of all of our programs throughout the state, including our transportation, our fleet, services. And, it was it was a it was too much.

00;24;50;14 - 00;25;17;03

Stan Schmidt

But what I needed to learn was what is the trigger and how can I get on top of that before I'm completely anxious or whatever it is that I'm dealing with? And I, I think for me, you know, I had a good store of anger to. And I needed someplace for that to go. But ultimately, I also wanted to learn rap so I could teach it.

00;25;17;06 - 00;25;41;23

Stan Schmidt

And, that propelled me to, to do this. I didn't get a lot of support from the agency. Certainly. I was, paid while I went, but, you know, everything I paid for myself because I found personal value in it. But also, I wanted to be able to teach it no matter what happened. I was going to teach this stuff to clients, and staff, and like you say, you're absolutely right.

00;25;41;23 - 00;26;13;04

Stan Schmidt

If we don't take care of our DSPs, it's really hard to take care of our clients. They are in a high art stew, if that's the correct metaphor. Every day, whether it be from parents or our funder or, of course, us, they get it in all places. And often these are folks who don't, come with a lot of self-reflection or, education or tools and, that, in my opinion, is our job.

00;26;13;04 - 00;26;19;19

Stan Schmidt

Let's give that to them. I mean, we we teach them how to prompt the client. Why can't we teach them how to take care of their mental health?

00;26;19;21 - 00;26;22;11

Mark Olson

Right. Susan, same question for you.

00;26;22;13 - 00;26;43;15

Susan O'Nell

Okay. Well, you know me. I've I've had a long history, my family, myself, a long history of mental health conditions that have been challenging and that can really, can really bring us to places that are hard. And, so I, early on in my life, became a mental health advocate just on my own time, you know, outside of work and everything.

00;26;43;15 - 00;27;00;25

Susan O'Nell

And, actually working with folks with autism was so, so fun for me because it made me realize, like, a lot of the like, I started to understand that idea, like, oh, the road can be really complicated. It really is hard to figure things out. And it gave me some, you know, freedom to be like, yeah, I'm I'm different.

00;27;00;25 - 00;27;26;09

Susan O'Nell

I'm different from folks, you know? And I've got to I've got to figure that out. But fast forward many years later, you know, life had happened. I'm in I'm in the middle of my Middle ages, and I had been talking to people and family members who loved people who had serious mental illness about rap as an option of something to think about, to help them, reclaim their wellness, reclaim their ownership of their life, you know, and, and figure out how they would like to live.

00;27;26;11 - 00;27;48;25

Susan O'Nell

And in the middle of doing that, I realized, like, I'm really measuring the quality of my life by whether I want to live another day. Now, I wasn't suicidal, but I wasn't living, you know, I just, I was just doing and, so I thought, well, I can't tell everybody else about rap. I guess I should maybe try it for myself.

00;27;48;27 - 00;28;08;18

Susan O'Nell

And, so I started to get involved in and taking the seminars, decided I wanted to become a facilitator and, it it just was more powerful than I thought it would be. And, you know, I was ready for it. So, you know, maybe somebody might attend a rap seminar and not be as moved. But for me, it was really powerful.

00;28;08;20 - 00;28;28;13

Susan O'Nell

And, I met great people and I continue to meet great people through this process. And I learned so much about myself, something that Stan said that really stuck out with me about, you know, like, you know, he wouldn't be able to ask for what he wants if it wasn't for rap. And I think that is really, you know, when we talk about the the value of education is you.

00;28;28;13 - 00;28;47;28

Susan O'Nell

It's education about yourself. It's learning about who you are and what you want, and then learning to get that support and, and make those self-advocacy moves that you need to make. And for a lot of us care givers, that is just not the natural way to be. And there's just a lot of pressure in the world to do what you need to do for other people.

00;28;47;28 - 00;29;05;02

Susan O'Nell

And it breaks my heart to think of Asia ever thinking that she's just in a room and no one's even noticing her because she's a beautiful person and she's doing so much for everybody. So rap like, lets you take ownership of that and and get out there and say, you know, yeah, maybe I should have a little time too.

00;29;05;02 - 00;29;10;12

Susan O'Nell

And it does make us better at taking care of others because we're valuing ourselves.

00;29;10;14 - 00;29;39;07

Chet Tschetter

Right. I think one of the things you said was, you know, being open to it. And that's really probably one of the first, first things you need to do. I mean, you might learn about it intellectually, but then to go, oh, this I can really benefit from doing this. And opening up that door that it's all right for me to take some time to focus on myself and get some help with of what things might be triggering or how I might be feeling.

00;29;41;07 - 00;29;44;11

Susan O'Nell

Yeah. It really it really sends you in a different way.

00;29;44;13 - 00;29;57;22

Chet Tschetter

Absolutely. It's a it's a mind shift at that point. But, Stan, you kind of started this. So maybe I'll have you answer this question first. Are there ways that you have.

00;29;57;24 - 00;30;20;28

Mark Olson

We would chat. Yeah, I have one more follow up from that stuff. Okay. The last question that I'd like to hit on, and, you know, we talk about, you talked about how important it is to talk about the positives. And I would love to have each of you quickly share past the things that you can do now that you couldn't do before you started doing rap.

00;30;21;01 - 00;30;25;17

Mark Olson

Are there you know, attributes that you've developed because of your own rap?

00;30;25;19 - 00;30;54;18

Aja Owens

I would just say that, one of the benefits I've experienced, working my rap is putting myself first because, again, as much as I love of serving and doing for everyone else, you know, I definitely have learned the importance of, you know, taking care of myself and my mental well-being and my physical well-being so that I could be a better assets for others.

00;30;54;20 - 00;30;55;21

Mark Olson

Okay.

00;30;55;24 - 00;31;10;29

Susan O'Nell

Yeah. And I think mine is it's it's kind of similar to Asian. The way it played out for me was I actually learned some self management skills. And I know that sounds really funny to people who know me because I seem like I'm on the ball. I got everything going on right as far as as far as work or whatever.

00;31;11;02 - 00;31;35;21

Susan O'Nell

But when it came to taking care of myself and, and kind of running through my own day, there was never I didn't I didn't assert the needs for, you know, some basic routine things or shifts and routines that, you know, what are the things that are going to feed me, keep me going and keep me well. And I'm still working on that, but I have, I have such a better mastery of that.

00;31;35;23 - 00;31;56;26

Susan O'Nell

And then that helps me understand, what's the next thing for me? It's helping me grow even more, even though I'm in the, you know, middle, Middle Ages here. You know, I'm, I'm still growing because I learned a lot about managing myself and and if you have a trigger, guess what? It's your responsibility to figure out what you're going to do about that.

00;31;56;26 - 00;32;02;16

Susan O'Nell

And there's something you can do about it, you know, and I. I don't think I always thought that way.

00;32;02;18 - 00;32;09;15

Mark Olson

Right. Stan, did you have anything you wanted to add on that question or. It's about, you know, are there things you can do now that you couldn't do before?

00;32;09;18 - 00;32;42;15

Stan Schmidt

I think for me, it wasn't so much that I'm doing something completely different. But I do feel that what I do, I understand why I do it and I, I value it more. For instance, it's important for me to be mindful. I mean, to be present, to be in the room, versus, some other way of being, for instance, I don't own a cell phone, and I think people find that ridiculous, but, you know, I know myself.

00;32;42;15 - 00;33;08;27

Stan Schmidt

I'll become addicted to that thing. I'll be on it all the time. And the other part is like, Susan in Asia have said, taking care of yourself, and, and feeling good about that. And that's, that is a problem with most caregivers. They want to apologize for taking care of their own needs. And I just have to say, I just got back from Tunisia and it was not easy to go away for three weeks.

00;33;08;29 - 00;33;26;16

Stan Schmidt

I do this every year. It is in my plan, vacations. Hugely important. And, I was able to do that and keep my partner fairly happy while I was away, so I, I feel pretty good about that.

00;33;26;19 - 00;33;32;26

Susan O'Nell

And I love what Stan calls vacation. I would call, like, the biggest adventure of my life. The guy goes everywhere.

00;33;32;29 - 00;33;36;26

Mark Olson

Stan, good on you for being able to make that happen.

00;33;36;29 - 00;33;37;28

Stan Schmidt

It's not easy.

00;33;38;00 - 00;34;01;04

Mark Olson

I mean, I just quickly, I sat through it, I signed up for and took kind of a real basic ramp primer, probably about a month ago. And let's just say I walked away as a member because, you know, before it was even done, I had already signed up and paid dues because there was so much there that made me just think, this is really cool.

00;34;01;04 - 00;34;03;06

Mark Olson

And I wanted the access that that gave me.

00;34;03;06 - 00;34;05;01

Susan O'Nell

So and that was to Copeland Center.

00;34;05;01 - 00;34;07;15

Mark Olson

That was your Copeland Center, right. So.

00;34;07;17 - 00;34;32;26

Chet Tschetter

Stan, you open this door up a little bit ago when you talked about, you wanted to be able to do a route for others. Yeah. Facilitate that. So the question is for all of you, and we'll have you kind of start, Stan, is what are ways that you have used or facilitated, rap, other than for your own personal rap?

00;34;32;28 - 00;35;02;12

Stan Schmidt

Well, of course, I've promoted it. I promote it all over the place. I bought in many of the books that, come out of the Copeland Center. I just distribute them widely. I tell people constantly that, rap is available. I tell them how they can use it. And I, I mean, even last night, I was talking with my brother who was lamenting that he can't find a way to go on vacation.

00;35;02;12 - 00;35;23;18

Stan Schmidt

And I tell him I, you know, I didn't go into it with him, but I've certainly done this with my staff. I say there is you can write a plan to go on vacation. Don't wait till the last minute, but start an IV, step them through it. Because of course, what I tell them is you can live your vacation all your long.

00;35;23;21 - 00;35;47;18

Stan Schmidt

And that's what I do. I not only, you know, go on vacation, but then I ride, I do photography, all these kinds of things. But it's about what you need in the long run as well. Rap isn't something that you write for every little, grievance that you have while driving down the road. It's about stuff that is consistently troubling for you.

00;35;47;19 - 00;36;07;27

Stan Schmidt

It's these consistent triggers, I should say. And when you write a plan, you need to put in the plan. What keeps you at your best? And for me, I have to look forward to something. And if I don't have a vacation to look forward to getting out of town, I am not going to be my best.

00;36;07;29 - 00;36;28;06

Stan Schmidt

But I. I use it at work, I use it, I use it everywhere. And being mindful is is top of mind for me. I don't allow myself to get dragged into things or be overly concerned with stuff that I don't have any control over. And most of the time it's just being in the room. Even last night I had a friend over for dinner.

00;36;28;10 - 00;36;34;13

Stan Schmidt

My partner's on the phone. I was sitting there by myself with my guest, and I'm like, who's who's?

00;36;34;13 - 00;36;35;14

Mark Olson

What's so important about being.

00;36;35;14 - 00;36;38;04

Stan Schmidt

On the phone? But people get into those habits.

00;36;38;06 - 00;36;40;10

Chet Tschetter

Thank you Asia.

00;36;40;13 - 00;37;22;27

Aja Owens

We facilitated these rep plans in so many different types of groups. And, the, the group that I'm particularly, you know, passionate about is, is the youth, specifically unhoused youth. So, and, at juvenile detention centers. So one of the things that I've, you know, kind of found to be very, very like, rewarding is, you know, kids who are in transition are kids who are, you know, in, you know, situations that they've, you know, found themselves in a bit of trouble, you know, but being able to develop these rad plans, I've, I've seen how, you know, it's giving them hope, you know, and it's made them feel supported to actually get

00;37;22;27 - 00;37;37;05

Aja Owens

out here and make a change. And, you know, because I feel like it's a different approach to what they're used to and they can actually see it. And I actually have seen them not only come up with these rad plans, but actually use them.

00;37;37;08 - 00;37;42;06

Chet Tschetter

So that's cool. Very cool. Thank you. Susan.

00;37;42;09 - 00;37;58;22

Susan O'Nell

Yeah, that was that was really awesome. So that's exactly what I was hoping to hear about when. And this is why I love, you know, get together with folks because you hear about all sorts of exciting things going on. For me, like when I facilitate, you know, I had this experience with Stan. I don't get to facilitate as much as I'd like.

00;37;58;22 - 00;38;26;09

Susan O'Nell

I would love to be facilitating more, but I've had trouble finding the the right partner niche here in Minneapolis sometimes. But, but I have facilitated groups of caregivers, and I think caregivers are my niche, in a lot of ways is probably where I most intuitively go. Being a lifelong caregiver and a professional caregiver over my life, one of the things you do in a wrap is you define for yourself what you look like when you're well, it's and it's kind of a powerful thing.

00;38;26;09 - 00;38;39;13

Susan O'Nell

The first time I did it, I wanted to cry because I had no idea what I looked like when I was well, at that point. And so, it was really helpful. But it's really that, you know, it's it's you can do that with an organization. You can do that with an individual. It applies in so many ways.

00;38;39;14 - 00;38;56;11

Susan O'Nell

What does our organization look like when it's well, you know, what would be happening. It's really tangible. And I, I find talking to people sometimes and helping them use that as a way to frame up what they're going for, because a lot of times we don't even know what we're going for. We just know we're dissatisfied with something we have.

00;38;56;13 - 00;39;19;18

Susan O'Nell

And, then the other thing is the wellness toolkit is something you learn really early on, too, and you start to look at, well, what what tools do you already have that help you, be well right now. And they can be very simple. But then we did a little training where we had to use just objects that they gave us to, and, and figure out how we would use them as a wellness tool.

00;39;19;18 - 00;39;36;17

Susan O'Nell

And we had like a water bottle. And I was like, well, you know, when I'm really agitated and feeling worked up, drinking an ice cold glass of water, like, gets me back into my body and kind of brings me and, you know, and so we were just laughing like our tagline, it was like, wellness can be as simple as a glass of water, you know?

00;39;36;17 - 00;39;50;13

Susan O'Nell

So it's like, what tools do you have and how do you keep expanding those tools? What tools might you be missing, and how can you start to fill that toolkit so you have more options to pull from when you are feeling like things are getting a little out of control for you?

00;39;50;15 - 00;39;57;05

Chet Tschetter

Thank you so much, Susan. I and I love that it can be as easy as a cold glass of water.

00;39;57;08 - 00;40;03;15

Mark Olson

And for me, right in my arms, I've got my cat. That's one of those things for me that's, Well, is things so.

00;40;03;17 - 00;40;04;23

Susan O'Nell

Absolutely.

00;40;04;25 - 00;40;18;07

Mark Olson

Okay. All right. So I'm going to the next question is what's important about that for you. What what appeals to it to you about it personally. Well anyone can go I'm going to you guys pick who goes first.

00;40;18;10 - 00;40;51;05

Aja Owens

Well you know, mine is actually kind of silly because, you know, again, I'm a poet and I'm also a rapper. And so when I think of rap, you know, it automatically is my mind associated with like, rap. But I think on a, on a whole nother level is the fact of just how, how simple it is. You know, it seems like it's a lot, but really, you know, once you kind of get into it, it's really it's about you, you know, so you think about just how, again, how individualized it is.

00;40;51;07 - 00;40;55;22

Aja Owens

And how what's your plan? I just I just like the simplicity, simplicity of it.

00;40;55;25 - 00;41;21;26

Stan Schmidt

And I definitely agree with that. I have kind of the same triggers, generally over and over. So, I've learned how to deal with those. And for me, it just keeps it keeps pushing me. Whenever I doubt that I need to do something, I say to myself, well, that's in my plan, you know, that's what I need to do now, because I know this is this is important.

00;41;21;26 - 00;41;39;27

Stan Schmidt

This is what's going to help me. And I think, for instance, this vacation, my partner was not particularly happy. I was going and, this is basically a trigger for him, you know, he's got to stay home, take care of the dogs. La la la. And I don't go for just a day or two. I'm gone for pretty much a month.

00;41;39;28 - 00;42;06;11

Stan Schmidt

So it's challenging for him. And, I had to, work through that. Not giving up, but, ultimately, he he was okay with it. I mean, this is something I do every year, so it's not new, but it's always a stressor for him. But if if I were not involved with rap, I might just say, okay, well, forget it, I won't go.

00;42;06;11 - 00;42;21;00

Stan Schmidt

But now, I mean, I know I need that, and I think that's what rap does for people. If they believe in it and work it, they know what works for them. They know what they have to do to keep themselves at their best. It's just that constant reminder.

00;42;21;02 - 00;42;42;18

Susan O'Nell

Yeah. And I mean, I think for me, one of the things that I find really now people do rap really differently. So like some people are really dedicated. Like I look at my rap every day. I think about my rap regularly, I updated regularly. I'm going to admit I am a sporadic rapper and I I tend to like go deep on it for like maybe take a Saturday or something and really be thinking about it.

00;42;42;18 - 00;42;58;04

Susan O'Nell

And is it in tune with where I am now and what what needs to change now? And there's, you know, we haven't talked about all the pieces of it, but there's a lot of different pieces of it that can help keep you in, even though it's simple. There's things to think about. And, so what I love is just the intentionality about it.

00;42;58;04 - 00;43;22;06

Susan O'Nell

Like, I have to assert of take care of myself. And rap helps me do that in a way that just feels so much more organized and gives and yields the best results for that effort. Because if you just periodically a search for wellness here and there, it's never going to be quite as effective as having this whole vision and all of the pieces that help you get there and stay there.

00;43;22;08 - 00;43;26;14

Mark Olson

If you could, to help Susan write a rap about being a sporadic rapper.

00;43;26;17 - 00;43;31;15

Susan O'Nell

No. Yes, yes. Well, time, space.

00;43;31;17 - 00;43;32;28

Mark Olson

Fun piece. Oh, might not.

00;43;32;28 - 00;43;36;24

Susan O'Nell

Have much luck with that. Is.

00;43;36;26 - 00;44;12;05

Mark Olson

But anyway, that just. You know. But what I'm hearing a lot is some of the tenants that you talked about earlier, Susan, where it talks about, you know, the key points, all of you have talked about the hope, the personal responsibility, the education, and, you know, being active in that part of it. The self-advocacy stand really came out in yours, as you're talking about, you know, your partner, it's not his favorite thing, but you, it's it's one of those things where it's like, I don't know what I can do to make it better for you, but I know I have to do this.

00;44;12;07 - 00;44;24;04

Mark Olson

So you're advocating for your own own needs. And I think that that's really powerful. I'm I'm happy to hear those things are are a part of what you're getting out of it. So thank you for sharing that.

00;44;24;07 - 00;44;47;15

Chet Tschetter

Yeah. Thank you. The next question and we'll start with Susan this time and, move to Asia and then Stan, what, if anything, what surprised you when you first, you know, did your first rap? Or early on during rap, what's something that surprised you? And then what's something that still kind of surprises you today?

00;44;47;17 - 00;45;02;12

Susan O'Nell

So I think the two things that really surprised me when I first did rap, one was I didn't know what I looked like when I was well, which we just talked about. I think I was just it really made me realize, like, I really need to take care of myself because I've just lost touch with who I am at such a deep level.

00;45;02;14 - 00;45;21;28

Susan O'Nell

And, and then that was so that was what I did, my personal rep when we did the facilitation training. I mean, they were like, it is nothing but unconditional positive regard. We are not talking about what's not working. We are only not what's working. We are only focusing on what's working. We're going to take care of ourselves.

00;45;21;28 - 00;45;43;05

Susan O'Nell

And they did it so rigorously. And I found that to be like, really transformative to me. And it just has changed how I facilitate every process I'm in, because it just opens the door to self-respect and respect for others and listening and other ways of, being with people that are really human. So those things were really surprising to me.

00;45;43;05 - 00;46;05;26

Susan O'Nell

And I went to that same, rep orientation. I think that marked it. It was a zoom that Copeland Center did a few weeks ago. And every time I listen to folks who have reps, I learned something and I learned something new. That that matters. And I'm always just so surprised at, like, how much more I can learn and how many wonderful and cool things are going on out there.

00;46;05;28 - 00;46;19;11

Chet Tschetter

That's great. Susan and having, known you for a long time and worked with you for the last five years, I see you, emulating that positive regard throughout throughout your day. So,

00;46;19;13 - 00;46;22;20

Susan O'Nell

Yeah, it's something that sticks with you. You want to bring to everything, right?

00;46;22;22 - 00;46;26;21

Chet Tschetter

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Asia.

00;46;26;24 - 00;47;02;18

Aja Owens

Yeah. I think that one of the things that surprises me about rap, I know we only facilitate rap. We talk about how you can use rap for pretty much any and everything. But I think that when you actually, develop a rap plan for something that doesn't seem so typical and it does actually work, like for me personally, you know, one of the jobs that I do, like last year, you know, I came up with a rap plan to, you know, to deal with some of my coworkers, you know, you know, and, you know, it was it was funny because I'm like, wow, you know, it's something that's at your disposal to do.

00;47;02;25 - 00;47;40;19

Aja Owens

But again, when you actually put it together and you can actually work it and see how it is beneficial to you. So that surprised me that it really can work in different capacities if you if you choose to. And I think that what continues to surprise me about rap, it's kind of something that Suzanne mentioned as well as far as like how we all can kind of like, do it differently, executed differently, but how it still is, still works, you know, even though, you know, when you think about facilitating, you know, Susan and I might facilitate it very differently, you know, but it's the same information.

00;47;40;21 - 00;47;52;02

Aja Owens

And whoever you're sharing that information with, they're going to take it. And because it is individualized, they're going to be able to create their own plans and still work it. And it works.

00;47;53;10 - 00;48;11;26

Chet Tschetter

Yeah. One of the things I, I heard you say is have really learned from this is, I haven't done a rap myself, and I always envision that it's kind of a one and done, but it's not a one and done. It's something you continue to work as different issues or things come up in your lives.

00;48;11;28 - 00;48;32;03

Aja Owens

I'm glad that you mentioned that, because that's another important thing about rap. Like let's just say, for instance, that you create a rap plan for, you know, something specific like, again, like, you know, dealing with someone at work. Well, every once in a while you might want to revisit that rap plan because it might change, things might change.

00;48;32;10 - 00;48;46;05

Aja Owens

So it's okay to do another rap, let you know, revisit it. Because what worked for you last year, you know, might not be the same thing that'll work for you this year. So reworking that rap as well.

00;48;46;07 - 00;49;06;13

Susan O'Nell

Yeah. And you said it earlier, not only reworking rap but working your rap. So even though I don't get my rap out every day, everything I've said into that rap is affecting how I'm going about my day. And, and you just got to keep carrying it, you know, it's like it keeps it, but but because it's there and it's clear, it's not that hard.

00;49;06;16 - 00;49;07;26

Chet Tschetter

How about you, Stan?

00;49;07;29 - 00;49;44;06

Stan Schmidt

I think for me, who among many surprising things, was, sort of what Susan was saying about, the absence of negativity, this unconditional positive regard, and I think what, what I enjoyed the most and when I first wrote a rap, it was an online class. And, you know, I, I hadn't heard people speak about their mental health challenges in such a way before, and it was kind of just matter of fact, this is this is what happens.

00;49;44;06 - 00;50;09;16

Stan Schmidt

This is how I deal with it and that kind of thing. And of course, it the training to be a facilitator, it was similar. Some of these folks had had, some, some pretty challenging episodes in their past. And of course, they, they, they work daily to overcome those. But, I found that to be kind of surprising how people spoke about their challenges.

00;50;09;18 - 00;50;24;12

Stan Schmidt

You know, once you're able to to speak about, you know, what your, your own triggers are or whatever, it becomes much less scary. And, and people don't often know that until they start talking to people.

00;50;24;14 - 00;50;25;22

Chet Tschetter

You know? Thanks, Dan.

00;50;25;25 - 00;50;57;09

Mark Olson

Just kind of want to ask you all to help me bring this back to the folks that are, providing direct support and are caregivers in across the board. I mean, we're talking to mostly folks who provide supports, people with ID or a related condition. Yet there are so many different places where caregivers need to hear how something like rap or the tenants of rap can help them to, take care of themselves.

00;50;57;09 - 00;51;16;16

Mark Olson

So do any of you have at least one final thought on how to make that connection? I'll let Susan start, because she's worked in in our particular field and probably would have the most knowledge base there. But then each of you is probably got something that translate as well. So, Susan, if you'd be first and then that's in Indonesia.

00;51;16;19 - 00;51;42;21

Susan O'Nell

I think one thing is, you know, I was really appreciating what Asia brought forth with the use and, you know, the their homeless, they're really facing real, real challenges, you know, and the fact that rap can still work under very extreme conditions and it comes out of it's rooted in that and it comes out of that. And so I wouldn't want people to think, that that's just something you do if you have the time to think about yourself.

00;51;42;22 - 00;52;14;16

Susan O'Nell

Like it really is a powerful and transformative tool, because I think, you know, when you're a direct support professional, you know, you are really busy and you also have probably a second job, and you might have kids and you might have all sorts of stressors. Your car is not working. Your, you know, and, I mean, I remember I didn't have a car for a year because I couldn't afford it because that's what the wages were at the time, you know, and, and, so I think just knowing that, it's a powerful tool, regardless of your circumstances.

00;52;14;16 - 00;52;35;18

Susan O'Nell

But you do need to be with peers. You need to be with people who understand your challenges, at least at some level. That is is enriching to you because, it, you know, it is about how to how do we work together. And the facilitators, you know, need to be need to also have lived experiences that mean something to you.

00;52;35;18 - 00;52;42;09

Susan O'Nell

So I think that's really important. With rap. But for DSPs, there's a lot you can get out of it. It could really help.

00;52;42;11 - 00;52;44;26

Mark Olson

And so, Stan, I was gonna have you go next.

00;52;44;29 - 00;53;15;07

Stan Schmidt

Okay. So. Yeah. What what I would tell folks is, you know, there are so many things. I mean, everybody is going to be different is different for each person, of course. But, if you can find what works for you to be your best self and, try to be consistent with that, you know, this is what I tell my staff all the time, we're not going to change the world, but we can consistently do good things, and be mindful about those things.

00;53;15;10 - 00;53;35;11

Stan Schmidt

For instance, the very physical part of what we have to do to get through the day is critical. Eating well and, you know, hydrating and things of that nature go a long way to preserving our mental health. And people forget that. And I tell them, you know, you can't. There's a things you got to do every single day.

00;53;35;13 - 00;53;57;28

Stan Schmidt

They they add up over time. And I think having things to look forward to, whether it be something small, like going to a movie or something big, like going on vacation, you have to have something to keep the light coming in. And, rap is is just one of many ways, but rap can be used in so with so many different things.

00;53;58;01 - 00;54;04;05

Stan Schmidt

I wish everybody had a rap because frankly, I think everybody needs it.

00;54;04;07 - 00;54;04;19

Mark Olson

Thank you.

00;54;04;19 - 00;54;09;27

Aja Owens

And I like that. I think everybody needs a rap.

00;54;09;29 - 00;54;18;27

Mark Olson

Right. So give us a rap now. You should actually I would like to, you know, to continue. Continue. You know, had more to add.

00;54;19;00 - 00;54;49;08

Aja Owens

Well, so no, I really, really like what he said, that, everybody needs a rap. I think to me, one of the things that stands out the most about, you know, having a rap plan is the self-advocacy part of it. You know, being able to advocate for yourself is, you know, is extremely important. And as we grow and as we evolve again, you know, one of the things on a personal level that I've been experiencing, over the past year is a lot of loss.

00;54;49;10 - 00;55;12;26

Aja Owens

I've lost, five family members in my immediate family, within this past year. And so my life is not the same. And so I think that having rap is or even, first of all, knowing about rap first, you know, knowing about it, but then being able to kind of come back around and being in this space to use it, helps me.

00;55;13;03 - 00;55;29;15

Aja Owens

And if I didn't know about rap and if I didn't know about certain things like, you know, a self-care plan, I'm not sure what I would have done dealing with and processing grief. So to me, I can say rap saved my life.

00;55;29;17 - 00;55;30;14

Susan O'Nell

Yeah.

00;55;30;17 - 00;55;56;06

Mark Olson

Oh, it's hard to follow that. But here's what I'm going to do is I'm going to ask you to since you are involved with the poetry project, you're being an artist myself, I love that concept. And how would people access this? Give you a chance for a shameless plug here? How would they access some of the poetry work that you are doing, and that you are doing with your community?

00;55;56;09 - 00;56;30;10

Aja Owens

Well, I am on YouTube. I know the poetry for Personal Power has a website. I'm not exactly sure if they have, you know, links to the artists because we call ourselves artist advocates. So, I'm not sure if they have links to everyone's website or anything like that, but, you know, if I think if you kind of go on Google or go on YouTube and type in my name, age a list star, a lot of different things that pop up from just over the years of me sharing, poetry and art.

00;56;30;12 - 00;56;58;20

Mark Olson

Wonderful. I just I just wanted to give you that, that entree and to get to our audience with, with what you're doing, because I think that that could inspire and to that, I'm sure some of that has got some rap wrapped into it. You you probably are, you know, are going to be helping people. But what I'm hearing and I'm just going to do a little quick sum up of, of of the again, the, the main tenants of rap and I think we're covered really well.

00;56;58;20 - 00;57;30;04

Mark Olson

But whether you go when you find rap folks and decide that you want to embrace rap itself or not, I think these tenants are things that you could explore, even individually or on your own, regardless of if it's through rap. And that's fine. Hop in your life, take personal responsibility, education, seek education, seek knowledge, seek learning, and and be active about that.

00;57;30;06 - 00;57;52;29

Mark Olson

Be a self-advocate. Take care of yourself. As some of our guests have talked about how they've been able to, you know, take over control of some things that they, in the past may have just let someone else kind of guide them on and then finally support your community, support people that you know need support and support others who maybe they're showing that they need support.

00;57;53;02 - 00;58;12;07

Mark Olson

Someone like Susan, who looks like she's got it all together may be inside, is needing the wall support now and again. So always make sure that you're offering that little bit of support. On that note, I'm going to say thank you to Asia. Thank you to stand. Thank you to Susan for being our guests. Thank you Chet, for being an amazing co-host.

00;58;12;10 - 00;59;00;12

Mark Olson

And thank you for joining us. Tune in for future episodes about taking care of our physical and mental health. Episodes are available on your favorite podcast streaming service. This is a podcast developed by the University of Minnesota's Institute on Community Integration. Well, this matters for direct support is for the health, wellness and self-care for direct support workers.