Episode 6
Episode 6: Olivia Kaplan on Trauma-Informed Care
Olivia Kaplan is a life success coach at Carey Services in Indiana. In this episode of Wellness Matters for Direct Support, she talks about how they implemented trauma-informed care in her organization, what it took to train staff, and how trauma-informed care is used to support both DSPs and the people they're supporting.
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Institute on Community Integration at the University of Minnesota
Transcript
- Hello and welcome to
the podcast Wellness
Speaker:Matters for Direct Support.
Speaker:This is a podcast
developed by the University
Speaker:of Minnesota's Institute
on community integration.
Speaker:It's focused on the importance
of health, wellness,
Speaker:and self-care for direct workers.
Speaker:My name is Chet Cheddar.
Speaker:I work at ICI as a national
workforce consultant, as well
Speaker:as I'm one of the co-editors
for Frontline Initiatives,
Speaker:which is a magazine we publish along
Speaker:with the National Alliance
for Direct Support.
Speaker:I'm here with my colleague
and co-host Mark Olson.
Speaker:- Hi, I'm Mark Olson,
and this is Chet Said,
Speaker:and I'm a trainer curriculum writer.
Speaker:I have been a direct support
professional for many,
Speaker:many years in the past,
Speaker:and recreation residential
supports, vocational
Speaker:and advocacy support, and
currently for a family member.
Speaker:Today we are gonna talk
about trauma-informed care,
Speaker:and I, I'd like to introduce
our guest, Olivia Kaplan.
Speaker:Olivia has her MSW specializing in mental
Speaker:health and addiction.
Speaker:She works for Carrie Services in Indiana
Speaker:as a life success coach.
Speaker:Care Services received a
grant from AWS Foundation
Speaker:to develop the Life Success Coach program
Speaker:using a trauma-informed
care model with the goal
Speaker:of reducing turnover
Speaker:and increasing the independence
Speaker:of individuals receiving
support from care services.
Speaker:Olivia was hired in October of 2020
Speaker:as a life life success coach.
Speaker:Now, Olivia, our first question is,
Speaker:how did you become interested
in trauma-informed supports?
Speaker:- Hi. Yeah. So my background
Speaker:is in therapy.
Speaker:I did case management
Speaker:and home-based case management,
home-based therapy with DCS
Speaker:and probation clients for quite some time
Speaker:before I even entered the
disability services world.
Speaker:And so a lot
Speaker:of the work I've done in my
professional life has been
Speaker:in the realm of dealing
with trauma, people
Speaker:experiencing a lifelong history of trauma
Speaker:or sometimes just moments
of trauma in their life.
Speaker:And so that was a big piece of it.
Speaker:And I think my own, my own history
Speaker:with childhood trauma,
experiencing just a lot
Speaker:of things growing up and resilience
Speaker:and those protective factors
that kind of balance out some
Speaker:of the things that, you
know, maybe you experience
Speaker:as traumatic events in life.
Speaker:You know, when we, when
we think about ACEs,
Speaker:adverse childhood experiences,
Speaker:my own ACEs score is an eight out of 10.
Speaker:And so thinking, you know,
Speaker:as an adult where I should be, right, for
Speaker:having experienced a
lot of, a lot of trauma
Speaker:growing up, I think that really kind of
Speaker:helped me figure out like,
okay, this is something
Speaker:that's necessary for people
Speaker:having different trauma-informed
supports in their life,
Speaker:having people who are positive supports
Speaker:and people who can
really promote resilience
Speaker:and promote healing.
Speaker:And having systems that
are set up in a way that,
Speaker:that really, that really do support
Speaker:and promote healing for people.
Speaker:- Now, one of the things
you spoke of in, in
Speaker:that particular part was
Speaker:that there can be like small
traumas that people have.
Speaker:What are some of the
things that you've run into
Speaker:that are kind of those
little small traumas
Speaker:that people may not know that
Speaker:that was really a traumatic experience?
Speaker:- I think when we, when we
think about like the difference
Speaker:between some things that are kind
Speaker:of these like quote unquote big T traumas
Speaker:and like little t traumas,
Speaker:maybe there are things like moving
Speaker:to a new community, right?
Speaker:And being really lonely
and not having support
Speaker:or not having friends,
Speaker:not not having anybody in your
life that you can talk to.
Speaker:And then that kind of
snowballs into maybe different,
Speaker:different things down the
line or being bullied, right?
Speaker:And that is something
Speaker:that maybe can turn into maybe
suffering from depression
Speaker:or anxiety
Speaker:or different things that, that come
Speaker:with some of those things.
Speaker:And those are things that,
that we see a lot too,
Speaker:just in the disability services world.
Speaker:People who have a disability that
Speaker:maybe have moved from home to home
Speaker:or don't have natural
supports in their life,
Speaker:and so they are really lonely
Speaker:or experience bullying
and things like that.
Speaker:- Well, I know from my
experience in providing support,
Speaker:there were so many folks
Speaker:that I would guess probably
experienced that people
Speaker:that supports because
Speaker:of the staff turnover that they deal with.
Speaker:Yeah. And, and so I
mean, that might be one
Speaker:of those little t ones
for, for some folks,
Speaker:others it might be a big T. So, yeah.
Speaker:- Yeah. Absolutely.
- Che, you have a question? I,
Speaker:- Yeah, that's where we were gonna go kind
Speaker:of next is Olivia, could you tell us what,
Speaker:I've heard it phrased a
couple different ways.
Speaker:Trauma-informed care or
trauma-informed supports.
Speaker:C tell us what that is
Speaker:and how does it affect people
Speaker:with intellectual disabilities?
Speaker:And I think, you know, the example
Speaker:that you just brought up now,
Speaker:mark is such a, such a good one.
Speaker:'cause we know that it happens so often.
Speaker:- Yeah. Yeah. So the way that we kind
Speaker:of define trauma-informed
care, like if we're
Speaker:to boil it down to its
most simplistic of terms,
Speaker:I guess would be really a
shift in the way we see people
Speaker:kind of shifting from this
mindset of what's wrong
Speaker:with you to what happened to you, right?
Speaker:So when somebody's, you
know, acting a certain way
Speaker:or behaving a certain way,
Speaker:or doing something that
maybe is irritating
Speaker:to us or that we don't agree with,
Speaker:or we just can't understand, instead
Speaker:of slipping into this mindset of like,
Speaker:man, what is wrong with you?
Speaker:I can't believe you
would do something like
Speaker:that, or whatever.
Speaker:Right? This place of
frustration or irritation.
Speaker:We kind of flip that around
Speaker:and think, okay, what might
have happened back here
Speaker:that's causing this response now?
Speaker:Right? Chances are maybe
something did happen to
Speaker:that person that is creating a response
Speaker:in this moment, whether we
know about it or we don't.
Speaker:And so, really, trauma, yeah,
Speaker:trauma-informed care is really
just a, a systematic way
Speaker:in the way that, that we see people.
Speaker:- Yeah. And I think just
really to step back and, and,
Speaker:and think about that, you know, what,
Speaker:what has this person gone
through in their life
Speaker:and what may be affecting
the way that they're,
Speaker:they're responding to me now,
Speaker:it might seem like they're
really like overreacting
Speaker:to something, but we don't know what's
Speaker:underneath all of that.
Speaker:- Right? And I think
that kind of goes back
Speaker:to even having a more
comprehensive understanding of even
Speaker:what trauma is, right?
Speaker:Like, like everybody's experience
with trauma is different
Speaker:and it impacts people differently.
Speaker:Whether you have a
disability, whether you don't,
Speaker:whether you've, you know, lived 70 years
Speaker:of life, whether you, you know,
you're a family of origin,
Speaker:your experience in different places.
Speaker:Our, our perception
Speaker:and the way we intake information
Speaker:and understand the world
impacts the way that we perceive
Speaker:trauma and how we,
Speaker:how we understand it,
and how we deal with it.
Speaker:And so my understanding
Speaker:of trauma-informed care,
even is impacted by
Speaker:what I even believe that trauma is.
Speaker:And so when we're talking
about trauma, understanding
Speaker:that it's, it really is just
a significant life event
Speaker:that maybe happened to me
Speaker:or even somebody that I care about,
Speaker:and it's impacted the way
that I think, feel, behave,
Speaker:interact with world around me.
Speaker:And so having that understanding
then shifts the way
Speaker:that maybe I can understand
Speaker:and interact with another person.
Speaker:- Right. Boy, that makes a lot of sense,
Speaker:- Mark.
Speaker:Yep. So, so why is it important
Speaker:to adopt a trauma informed
approach when supporting people
Speaker:with intellectual disabilities?
Speaker:- Yeah, I think, well that's a, I think a,
Speaker:a multifaceted question, right?
Speaker:I think it's, you know,
it's, it seems simple.
Speaker:It seems simple on the outset,
Speaker:but I think, honestly, I think trauma,
Speaker:a trauma-informed
approach is important just
Speaker:for people in general, right?
Speaker:I think it's important for people who
Speaker:important, for people who are,
who don't have disabilities.
Speaker:I think it's important for
people who are in schools.
Speaker:I think it's important for
people who do have disabilities
Speaker:because there's a lot of things
Speaker:that we just don't know about people.
Speaker:I mean, for people who have
disabilities, like a lot
Speaker:of times there's, we
do know a lot of stuff
Speaker:that's happened in their life
because we get, you know,
Speaker:when they come to our agency,
we get A-A-P-C-I-S-P, right?
Speaker:They're person-centered
their support plans, right?
Speaker:We get their behavior plans.
Speaker:We get, we get all this,
this, this paperwork
Speaker:and all of these plans
that come with people
Speaker:that sometimes outline a lot
Speaker:of really personal
details about their life
Speaker:and help us to, to care for them
Speaker:and to treat them in a way
that is really informed
Speaker:by what's going on in their life.
Speaker:But there's always gonna be things
Speaker:that we don't know about people.
Speaker:And so adopting a trauma
informed care model,
Speaker:or a trauma informed
way of caring for people
Speaker:just accounts for that margin, right?
Speaker:It just accounts for the things
that maybe we don't know.
Speaker:If I only was sensitive
to people when I knew
Speaker:that they've been through
something difficult.
Speaker:I, like, I wouldn't be
sensitive to the majority
Speaker:of the people in the
world because majority
Speaker:of the people are not gonna
tell me when they've been
Speaker:through something hard.
Speaker:Right? When they've experienced trauma,
Speaker:because I don't know,
I don't know about you,
Speaker:but I don't wanna go around
Speaker:and have to tell every single
person that I encounter all
Speaker:of the terrible things that
happened in my life in order
Speaker:to be treated with dignity
and respect. Right?
Speaker:- Yeah. Thank goodness
we dont have to wear
Speaker:that on our name badges or something.
Speaker:- Right? Right.
Speaker:And so, and so, especially for people
Speaker:who have disabilities,
sometimes cognitively,
Speaker:they don't have the ability
to share some of those things,
Speaker:maybe verbally, their verbal ability,
Speaker:they communicate differently.
Speaker:And so there's a barrier
in that communication
Speaker:to us when they're talking with us
Speaker:or when they're communicating
Speaker:with us about things that
they've been through.
Speaker:And, and again, you know,
Speaker:sometimes they just don't wanna tell us.
Speaker:They just don't wanna
tell us. And they've been
Speaker:through some stuff and, and that's okay.
Speaker:But, but having this mentality
Speaker:and having this, this system of care
Speaker:where we're trauma
informed helps us to care
Speaker:for people in a way that, that
understands, okay, majority
Speaker:of people in the world, it's like 70%
Speaker:of people in the United States
have experienced at least one
Speaker:traumatic event in their life, higher
Speaker:for people with a disability.
Speaker:Right. We can, we can be
sensitive then to, to everybody
Speaker:and understand that, that probably
Speaker:I should treat people a little
bit, a little bit better.
Speaker:I can treat people knowing, okay,
Speaker:I'll be a little more
Speaker:sensitive to what they've been through.
Speaker:- Yeah. What would, I
mean, I, I bring this back
Speaker:to listening to you, you, you
share this, it ties so closely
Speaker:to some of the person-centered
thinking philosophies
Speaker:that I train folks in.
Speaker:Yeah. And how when we do
person centered thinking,
Speaker:we are talking about coming
from where the individual is at
Speaker:and they're driving the bus.
Speaker:This is, you know, we need to
learn about each individual.
Speaker:Now, when I joined, when,
Speaker:when I got into the
field back in the: Speaker:this was not really something
that was talked about.
Speaker:Right. And I, I, I'm
sitting here thinking,
Speaker:and I, I, I'm going, oh my
gosh, did I do some things in,
Speaker:in, in the past in providing support
Speaker:that probably weren't the best things,
Speaker:but it was what we did at that time.
Speaker:Sure. I ran into some
individuals that, you know,
Speaker:had been in institutions
talk about some trauma
Speaker:that they'd experienced.
Speaker:Yeah. And talk about some of
the, the behaviors as it were,
Speaker:or the ways people were
communicating that they needed
Speaker:to do something through that,
that communication that that,
Speaker:that, that action instead, you know,
Speaker:if I had trauma informed
care in place back then,
Speaker:I would've done things
so much differently.
Speaker:- Sure. - So, so I appreciate
hearing that from you
Speaker:because it, it, it, it,
it makes me feel that,
Speaker:that we are at least moving
in the right direction.
Speaker:- Right. I think about stuff like that.
Speaker:And I think, like, okay, so,
so I didn't know back then.
Speaker:Right. And I can't, like
I'm not, you are not faulted
Speaker:for what you don't know.
Speaker:Right. Like, well, I can't know
Speaker:that I can't do what I don't know.
Speaker:But when you know better,
I, you can do better right?
Speaker:Now that I know the information,
Speaker:maybe I could do something with it.
Speaker:And I think that's,
Speaker:that's really the most
important piece. Yeah, for sure.
Speaker:- Olivia, you tell us how
the organization you work
Speaker:with came to provide
trauma-informed support.
Speaker:- Yeah. So you had kind of mentioned this,
Speaker:but it is, it well started as
this grant funded initiative.
Speaker:So AWS foundation really is a big
Speaker:supporter of trauma-informed care
Speaker:and trauma-informed supports.
Speaker:And so they, they really
partnered with us and
Speaker:provided kind of the first,
Speaker:really this first leg of the grant.
Speaker:And we're actually in
our phase two process now
Speaker:to really kind of pilot this program.
Speaker:'cause it hadn't, we hadn't
figured a different place
Speaker:or hadn't seen a different place
Speaker:where this had been really
done in, in this way yet.
Speaker:And so, you know, our
our agency kind of knew
Speaker:that, that something was going on and,
Speaker:and had kind of seen different
things within the agency.
Speaker:They were like, okay, this is not right,
Speaker:or this isn't going well,
Speaker:or this, you know, we're struggling here
Speaker:and we're struggling here
and we're seeing a lot
Speaker:of like this kind of common thread
Speaker:of people struggling in this way.
Speaker:And so they weren't exactly sure,
Speaker:like, you know, what to do about it.
Speaker:So they did some, some research
and some kind of digging.
Speaker:And, and this was kind of the, the,
Speaker:the model they came up with, right?
Speaker:Was this, this idea
Speaker:that supporting people via
Speaker:informed supports would be really
Speaker:beneficial in a lot of ways.
Speaker:And, and we know that, you know,
Speaker:that's the case when we look at the way
Speaker:that they're doing
trauma-informed care in schools.
Speaker:A lot of elementary schools
Speaker:and across the country have
implemented trauma-informed
Speaker:supports and trauma-informed care models.
Speaker:And that's proven to be really beneficial.
Speaker:So why would we not do that here? Right?
Speaker:And so the, the grant
Speaker:initially kind of outlined in
the beginning, like, working
Speaker:with individuals, right?
Speaker:Like, we're really gonna,
Speaker:we're gonna start with individuals.
Speaker:We're gonna, we're gonna do that.
Speaker:And, and when I started, like
ideally that's a great idea
Speaker:because individuals do need that support
Speaker:and do need kind of that,
Speaker:that one-on-one,
Speaker:or even like kind of a
broader spectrum of support
Speaker:that's trauma-informed.
Speaker:But, but very quickly I realized that
Speaker:that approach was unsustainable, right?
Speaker:Only working with the
individuals that we serve
Speaker:wasn't gonna do it if our DSPs
Speaker:weren't tr using a
trauma-informed method, right?
Speaker:Because I'm only one person
for our 220 employees
Speaker:and one person for the you
Speaker:500 plus people that we serve, right?
Speaker:And so how do we create this
Speaker:like complete culture
change in our organization
Speaker:where trauma informed care
Speaker:and providing trauma-informed supports,
Speaker:and being a culture
Speaker:where we are trauma-informed is important.
Speaker:And so recognizing, okay, we
need to work with our DSPs
Speaker:to train them on how to be trauma-informed
Speaker:and how to address, you know, the things
Speaker:that are going on in their
lives and provide support
Speaker:and resources
Speaker:and training to them on
what it means to be a,
Speaker:a trauma-informed environment
Speaker:and provide that to individuals
Speaker:supporting our middle management
Speaker:and training them on culture
Speaker:and creating that culture for the DSPs
Speaker:that are on their teams.
Speaker:And kind of, and, and figuring out like
Speaker:where do we start with that?
Speaker:So I decided to start
with middle management.
Speaker:'cause we had the most struggle there.
Speaker:They kind of were the crux, right?
Speaker:They're always, middle
management are always the people
Speaker:who kind of get caught in the crunch
Speaker:where they get those top down directives
Speaker:and they get like the kind of
the junk from the bottom up.
Speaker:They get all, they
receive all the complaints
Speaker:and they, they get all the directives.
Speaker:And so kind of empowering
our middle management
Speaker:and supporting them in a way
Speaker:where they felt like they
could implement this kind
Speaker:of a program and they could
do that with their teams
Speaker:and they could empower
their DSPs to do that
Speaker:and they could support the individuals
Speaker:that were on their caseloads
and things like that.
Speaker:So that's kind of the, the
really, really short version of
Speaker:how we, how our organization came to, came
Speaker:to providing kind of
trauma informed supports.
Speaker:But, but yeah, we, you know,
we developed a framework,
Speaker:an implementation framework model that
Speaker:kind of goes through this,
like this wheel and a process.
Speaker:I have an advisory
committee for the program
Speaker:and the development and things like that.
Speaker:So it helps kind of with
some oversight and direction.
Speaker:- I, I just love that really looking at
Speaker:what, what are the DSPs,
the direct support workers
Speaker:and professionals, what
do they bring with them?
Speaker:And we, we all bring something,
you know, with us as,
Speaker:as you said, and sometimes
that, that group of people
Speaker:that are kind of overlooked
Speaker:and we, we have to think about
one another as coworkers of
Speaker:what, you know, what we've gone through,
Speaker:what our life has been like and,
Speaker:and what some of those things might be.
Speaker:So I really, I really love
Speaker:that the organization really looked at not
Speaker:just the people served.
Speaker:- Yeah.
- Alright. Now comes the fun part.
Speaker:This question is one
that gives you the, like,
Speaker:you know, you're from the Midwest.
Speaker:'cause we talked a little bit
about that earlier, as are we,
Speaker:we don't toot our horn enough,
Speaker:we just don't being Midwesterners.
Speaker:So here's a chance for
you to talk about some
Speaker:of the success successes that you have had
Speaker:with this approach at your
organization and personally.
Speaker:- Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker:So I think in terms of different,
Speaker:like successes, man, I think that
Speaker:we've seen a lot more, a lot more
Speaker:just like relational success
Speaker:among different people
within the organization.
Speaker:When I look at relationships
specifically, like
Speaker:for me, that was like a big
deal to me was being relational
Speaker:with people and being approachable.
Speaker:I see a lot of people taking
advantage of resources
Speaker:and things that I offer being connected
Speaker:to community resources, being connected to
Speaker:different support services
Speaker:and things like that,
that we're able to offer
Speaker:through this program specifically.
Speaker:And that's a huge success to me.
Speaker:Things that, you know, might
otherwise cause people stress
Speaker:and anxiety with their job.
Speaker:Whether it's, you know,
I can't get to work
Speaker:because of transportation,
figuring out childcare,
Speaker:those kinds of things.
Speaker:All of that.
Speaker:I think another success
Speaker:that we've had is in terms
Speaker:of this position specifically,
I do a lot of advocating
Speaker:for different policy changes
Speaker:and, you know, accessibility
Speaker:within our policies at the
agency, within our agency at
Speaker:that level so that our DSPs
Speaker:maybe have better, I
don't know this, this,
Speaker:some of our DSPs struggle
to follow policies
Speaker:because either the policies
aren't accessible to them
Speaker:or they're, they're too high level, right?
Speaker:We write all of our policies
in this like legalese.
Speaker:And so like myself as like a,
Speaker:like a master's level
clinician, I look at this like,
Speaker:you know, 12 page document
Speaker:that has all these humongous words in it.
Speaker:And I'm like, Hmm, do I
really need to read that?
Speaker:Do I wanna read that?
Like, can I like paste
Speaker:that in chat GPT and say,
summarize this for me?
Speaker:Right? Like, how are some
Speaker:of our DSPs expected to
follow things that they
Speaker:are not one, maybe not able
Speaker:to read two can't access.
Speaker:So I think that's been a big success too,
Speaker:is figuring out different ways to simplify
Speaker:and make things accessible for our DSP so
Speaker:that they know what they're doing
Speaker:- Well.
Speaker:Yeah. Why do, why do
the executives are they,
Speaker:why are they the only ones
that get the executive
Speaker:summary, right?
Speaker:- Right. I want an executive
Speaker:summary of literally everything,
Speaker:- Every level of it should be written.
Speaker:It should be the language
level that people
Speaker:who are English language
learners, people who who,
Speaker:who may not have
Speaker:that legal background
can understand, right?
Speaker:- Yeah. So I had, I
had read something once
Speaker:that nothing should be communicated
Speaker:above a sixth grade reading level.
Speaker:And I think I had was at a
conference when they were talking
Speaker:about a communication
Speaker:and I thought, man, we
really need to work on that
Speaker:because there's a lot of things
that I'm like, I know that
Speaker:that's above a sixth grade reading level.
Speaker:You know, we, we even,
Speaker:- Yeah.
Speaker:We, when we, when we write
the curriculum work that I do,
Speaker:we write to a sixth to ninth grade level.
Speaker:Yeah. We, we try, you know, we try
Speaker:and keep it around six,
you know, sometimes just
Speaker:because of terminology.
Speaker:Basically we do write
sixth to ninth grade level.
Speaker:And the one thing that comes into,
Speaker:into play is sometimes there's
Speaker:terminology that needs defining.
Speaker:And so we'll define that
in a better language to try
Speaker:and help people understand.
Speaker:So you're talking the same thing. Yeah.
Speaker:The, the same basic concept
that in itself can be a trauma
Speaker:for some people not being
able to understand. Yeah.
Speaker:- Well, and when we think
about, when we think about,
Speaker:this is kind of a tangent
from your initial question,
Speaker:I think, but when we
think about turnover and,
Speaker:and like why people are
quitting, like are some
Speaker:of the things that we're asking them
Speaker:to do right at the outset,
just really too difficult.
Speaker:I remember when I went through
our initial training week
Speaker:and I took our, our med core classes,
Speaker:our med med administration,
Speaker:and the second med core
class, Medcor B was all,
Speaker:it's all, you know,
psychotropic medications,
Speaker:understanding med interactions,
these kinds of things.
Speaker:And I was like, and,
Speaker:and this is mandated by the state, right?
Speaker:Like, if you can't pass
it within three times,
Speaker:you cannot work here
Speaker:because you have to be able to pass meds.
Speaker:And I just remember I was,
Speaker:I had graduated from grad
school in May of: Speaker:and I started in here in
October of: Speaker:that far removed from my
graduate, my graduate education.
Speaker:And I was sitting in Med
Corps and in Med Corps B
Speaker:and I just remember thinking, oh my gosh,
Speaker:I took an entire semester class in
Speaker:my graduate school on
what they're teaching
Speaker:in one afternoon in Med Corby.
Speaker:I took a whole semester
class on this in grad school.
Speaker:Like, what?
Speaker:You know, and, and,
Speaker:and we have like, we have people who are
Speaker:18 years old
Speaker:who maybe have a GED high
school diploma, right?
Speaker:They maybe are not, not college educated,
Speaker:don't have a master's degree, right.
Speaker:Coming in to do really, really
Speaker:like hard work, rewarding work,
Speaker:but hard work caring for people.
Speaker:And I'm like, dang, this is a hard class.
Speaker:- Well, and then that person
is really, you know, it's like,
Speaker:do they even wanna finish the course?
Speaker:Do they wanna stay and work there?
Speaker:If, if they can't understand
the material they're being
Speaker:asked to, to, to learn. So,
Speaker:- And I will say like
our, our nursing staff,
Speaker:our health office, they, like our nurse
Speaker:who teaches Medcor does a
phenomenal job at like really
Speaker:making it understandable.
Speaker:And she'll sit and study with them and,
Speaker:and give, like, she does a great job of,
Speaker:of really breaking down the information.
Speaker:But I mean, there's some stuff that like
Speaker:is just difficult names of medications.
Speaker:There's no easy, you're not
Speaker:changing that, you know, you know,
Speaker:- I, I still get 'em all wrong if
Speaker:- That.
Speaker:I can't even pronounce the news
Speaker:of the medications that I take.
Speaker:- I'm with you, I'm with you.
- I'm like, oh my gosh.
Speaker:And so it's just, yeah,
it's just challenging.
Speaker:And I, and I think I, yeah,
I don't know, man, there's
Speaker:so many things that
Speaker:if it feels defeating from the outset,
Speaker:how do we then on the back end,
you know, with this program
Speaker:and kind of helping, how do we help
Speaker:to set people up for success?
Speaker:How do we help them,
how do, how this sense
Speaker:of belonging here so that
they're like, okay, man,
Speaker:even though that was hard, I know
Speaker:that people here care about me.
Speaker:I know that I'm valued here.
Speaker:I know that I have
something to contribute.
Speaker:I know that I'm doing good work.
Speaker:I know that, you know, all
Speaker:of these things. Yeah. It's a safe
Speaker:- Place.
Speaker:- Exactly. People are there
Speaker:- To care about you.
You're a part of their
Speaker:- Community. Exactly.
Speaker:- And, and, and that helps us
celebrate the successes too.
Speaker:And I think that's another
thing that we forget
Speaker:to do quite often, celebrate that success.
Speaker:Right? Right. And somebody
finishes that med core course
Speaker:that you're talking about, celebrate that
Speaker:with them somehow, you know?
Speaker:Yeah. And, and, you know,
it's like simple things like
Speaker:that are gonna really help with the, with,
Speaker:I think the concept of,
Speaker:of making pe making people
feel welcome and, and valued
Speaker:and appreciated as you had said. So.
Speaker:- And I think that kind of goes
back to like, like thinking
Speaker:and, and talking about when,
Speaker:when I said at the very
beginning, this idea
Speaker:of just being relational.
Speaker:I can't celebrate with you if
I don't know you. Yes. Right.
Speaker:If I don't know that you've
been struggling, whether it's
Speaker:with, you know, a class in training
Speaker:or even just in your personal life
Speaker:or with something that you're
dealing with, with somebody
Speaker:that you're supporting
or you whatever it is.
Speaker:If I don't know that if I don't know you,
Speaker:I can't celebrate a win with you.
Speaker:Right? I can't help you navigate something
Speaker:that's hard if I don't even
know that that's going on.
Speaker:And so I think, you know,
so much of this, this job
Speaker:and so much of this
program is about proximity.
Speaker:I can't create an environment for people.
Speaker:One of the, the, we developed these, well,
Speaker:we didn't develop the five principles,
Speaker:but that, that's a core
piece of the program, right?
Speaker:And so within this program,
safety, choice, collaboration,
Speaker:trust, and empowerment.
Speaker:And so I can't effectively
do those things, right?
Speaker:I can't create an environment
that has those things.
Speaker:If I'm not getting to know people, I'm not
Speaker:- In relationship with people.
Speaker:If favor and share favor
those again more slowly. Yeah.
Speaker:The five principles,
Speaker:- Safety.
Speaker:Yeah. Yeah. Safety, choice, collaboration,
Speaker:trustworthiness, and empowerment.
Speaker:- And so those, those
are great core to live by
Speaker:when you're working with any human being.
Speaker:Yeah. So I I, I really appreciate
Speaker:that you shared those again,
Speaker:because I think that that does
help people kind of tie it
Speaker:to even some of the other, other resources
Speaker:that they might have and, and show
Speaker:how these things all work together.
Speaker:So chat.
Speaker:- Yeah. I was wondering what
have been some other important
Speaker:lessons learned as you've
been providing this?
Speaker:- Yeah, I think, gosh,
we've learned so much.
Speaker:We're in, we're we're
entering into the fourth year,
Speaker:the second phase of this process.
Speaker:And, and I think, I think
the biggest thing is
Speaker:it's really all about the culture.
Speaker:You really can't piecemeal this.
Speaker:You can't say, well, I'm only gonna
Speaker:be trauma-informed care
in this department.
Speaker:Like, I'm only gonna be trauma
informed in this department.
Speaker:I'm only gonna implement
this program with,
Speaker:with these people, or with this
person, or with this staff,
Speaker:or, you know, like, you,
you just can't, it's,
Speaker:it has to be a whole agency,
Speaker:systematic movement.
Speaker:And, and I think another thing that,
Speaker:like, that was hard for me personally,
Speaker:and maybe it's just my personality,
Speaker:because I'm very much like, I'm very,
Speaker:I don't know, bullheaded,
maybe strong-willed a leader.
Speaker:Midwestern, Midwestern.
Speaker:I used to, I was called
bossy a lot as a kid.
Speaker:And now I, I like to say
Speaker:that bossy children are strong leaders.
Speaker:Well, we do that person centered thinking,
Speaker:we'll make it strengths based.
Speaker:- That's, we do that
person centered thinking.
Speaker:What, what's that mild negative that,
Speaker:what's the positive in there? That's
Speaker:- Good.
Speaker:Exactly. Exactly.
Speaker:But, but like, when I see
something as like, man,
Speaker:this is a great idea.
Speaker:This is positive change,
we're gonna do this.
Speaker:Like, not shockingly,
not everybody sees it
Speaker:as a great change.
Speaker:Imagine what, imagine
that when you ask people
Speaker:to do something different,
they don't want to.
Speaker:And so, yeah, people aren't,
Speaker:people aren't always
gonna wanna make a change.
Speaker:You know, oftentimes they're
fine if the change applies to,
Speaker:you know, those other people over there.
Speaker:Right. As long as like, like
Speaker:that department can do it.
Speaker:But like, I don't have
to change my processes.
Speaker:I don't have to change my behavior.
Speaker:I don't have to change my language.
Speaker:It seems like it's really just them.
Speaker:And so really kind of
uncovering a lot of silos
Speaker:that we're experiencing
Speaker:and like kind of departments
that need to work together,
Speaker:kind of operate independently
Speaker:until they really need to work together.
Speaker:And there's some friction.
Speaker:And so, you know, when
you ask people to change,
Speaker:there's a lot of pushback.
Speaker:And they're like, well, I think
it's a great idea for them.
Speaker:I'm like, no, no, no, it's
a great idea for you too.
Speaker:And so yeah, that's, there's that
Speaker:- Bossy thing coming back.
Speaker:- Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
Speaker:And so I think, I think it takes,
Speaker:it takes a really strong
leader to weed out the people
Speaker:who maybe aren't willing
Speaker:to make the change, right?
Speaker:You're always gonna have
people in your organization
Speaker:who just don't want to do it.
Speaker:And you have to decide, like,
Speaker:you gotta determine what's more important.
Speaker:Do we wanna move forward
with this initiative?
Speaker:Because if we don't, you
just end up sliding backward
Speaker:because things continue to move, right?
Speaker:There's no such thing as stagnation.
Speaker:Things are gonna continue to move.
Speaker:And so if you're not moving
forward, you're moving backward.
Speaker:And, and so like, some people are
Speaker:not gonna be on board,
Speaker:and maybe it takes them a
little longer to catch up
Speaker:and eventually they get there and
Speaker:they're kind of the caboose, right?
Speaker:But you gotta have somebody
who's really strong and,
Speaker:and willing to have hard conversations.
Speaker:I think that's so critical,
willing to say to people, Hey,
Speaker:like, this is what, this
is what we're doing.
Speaker:Right? Just, I, I think a lot
Speaker:of times there's a misconception
between with, with like
Speaker:being bold and having conversations
Speaker:and people are like, well,
that's not trauma informed.
Speaker:Well, no, it can be sometimes,
Speaker:sometimes having the hard
conversation is the kindest thing
Speaker:you can do for somebody, right?
Speaker:Like sometimes being honest
Speaker:and telling somebody, Hey, this is an area
Speaker:that we're really struggling in.
Speaker:I need you to correct it.
Speaker:I need you to course correct
Speaker:because this is where we're going to,
Speaker:and I need you to figure out
how you're gonna get there.
Speaker:Right. Sometimes it's the
most kind thing you can do,
Speaker:rather than just leaving 'em in the dark
Speaker:and then all of a sudden, you know,
Speaker:you guys are miles ahead and
they're like, wait a second.
Speaker:Nobody told me. Right?
Speaker:Nobody told me that
what I was doing was not
Speaker:aligned with where we were going.
Speaker:And so I think a lot of
those things have been,
Speaker:have been big lessons for
us in, in figuring out how
Speaker:to get people from one place to another.
Speaker:And, you know, it's still
always a work in progress.
Speaker:Right. I'm curious
Speaker:- Because people are,
- People are
Speaker:- People, I'm curious, some of the people
Speaker:that are the hardest ones to get on board,
Speaker:do they eventually become
sometimes your biggest advocates?
Speaker:- Sometimes? Yeah.
Speaker:- Yeah. I've, I've run
into that before as well.
Speaker:The other thing that I've
also run into is that
Speaker:sometimes turnover is positive.
Speaker:Yeah. If you've got that person
that just can't get on board
Speaker:with where you're going,
it may be time for them
Speaker:to find their next thing
Speaker:and for you to find the next person
Speaker:that's going to be on board.
Speaker:And that can then help
turnover in the end. So, right.
Speaker:- Exactly. Yeah. That's,
you're exactly right.
Speaker:And, and then, and having
those conversations, right?
Speaker:Like, like me, I, I am
usually the one who has
Speaker:to like bring that.
Speaker:So my position's unique in that
I am my, my own department.
Speaker:My program is a standalone
and nobody reports to me.
Speaker:Occasionally I have, I
have practicum students,
Speaker:social work practicum
students that will come in,
Speaker:but I have no direct reports
Speaker:and I report directly to the CEO.
Speaker:So I, I also kind of operate
Speaker:as like this in-house consultant,
Speaker:where I see different things
Speaker:that are going on in
different departments,
Speaker:and I'm able to kind of say,
Hey, this is not working great,
Speaker:or this is kind of the
pulse of the organization,
Speaker:or this, people are unhappy with that.
Speaker:Right. And I can say, we need
to do something here, right?
Speaker:Like, this is not aligned
with where we're going
Speaker:and it's not really my position
Speaker:to have a conversation with this person.
Speaker:But you as the CEO, you, as the head
Speaker:of the agency can address that.
Speaker:And that can be impactful.
Speaker:- Right? Absolutely. And that
leads us to the next question.
Speaker:How does a trauma informed
organization support direct
Speaker:support professionals?
Speaker:- So, yeah, there's a lot of
different things that, a lot
Speaker:of different initiatives that
I think we've really tried
Speaker:to put in place for people
so that they feel supported.
Speaker:First. We, I created a
trauma-informed care training
Speaker:that we, that I teach
Speaker:during our new hire class.
Speaker:So every single one of our new hires,
Speaker:direct support professionals,
Speaker:and any staff that comes
in, so admin staff,
Speaker:early Head Start, anybody
Speaker:that comes into our agency receives that
Speaker:trauma-informed care training.
Speaker:So they learn about trauma, they learn
Speaker:about trauma-informed care.
Speaker:They learn about those five
principles that I mentioned,
Speaker:and how do I apply
those in our day-to-day,
Speaker:what does trauma look like
when it shows up, right?
Speaker:What does a trauma response
look like when it shows up in
Speaker:somebody that we're gonna be supporting?
Speaker:And how do I navigate some
of those things, right?
Speaker:Some tangible pieces.
Speaker:And, and that's one way that
we can really support our DSPs,
Speaker:is by empowering them with
some of that knowledge, right?
Speaker:I can't expect them to be trauma-informed
Speaker:and to support people
Speaker:by being trauma-informed if they
Speaker:don't even have the knowledge.
Speaker:So that's, that's one part.
Speaker:And then also, by me being
accessible to people,
Speaker:I make it a point to go
visit our DSPs, to talk
Speaker:with our DSPs, to build
relationships with the pe,
Speaker:the people that we
employ, so that they know
Speaker:that they can come to me if
they need resources, support,
Speaker:access, and connections to
community partners, whether
Speaker:that's for housing, for food assistance,
Speaker:for transportation assistance,
Speaker:they need help finding childcare,
whatever that might be,
Speaker:counseling services in
the, in the community,
Speaker:all different kinds of support
Speaker:and ongoing support can
kind of be channeled through
Speaker:this program.
Speaker:I kind of, I talked a
little bit about this, but,
Speaker:but doing some of that,
advocating for some
Speaker:of those policy changes
Speaker:and different things that maybe don't,
Speaker:don't really make sense for our DSPs,
Speaker:or, you know, if I'm, I'm working at a,
Speaker:at a residential home
Speaker:and not at day services,
maybe those policies need
Speaker:to look a little bit different
Speaker:because I'm providing different services.
Speaker:Right. I think another thing
Speaker:that I kind of mentioned, just kind
Speaker:of bringing consistent
issues to the forefront.
Speaker:A lot of times, you know,
Speaker:there's such a disconnect
from like c-level
Speaker:executive management a lot of times.
Speaker:And our DSPs, they don't
always feel like they can go
Speaker:to our admin people
Speaker:and say, Hey, this is problematic for me.
Speaker:Maybe they'll go to their
manager, but there's five levels
Speaker:and between A DSP and our CEO,
Speaker:and so kind of, you know, if
they have that relationship
Speaker:with me, I can help bridge that gap.
Speaker:I, I think also just, you know,
Speaker:working on engagement
strategies, appreciation efforts,
Speaker:helping people feel like
they are appreciated
Speaker:and they are valued,
Speaker:and that, you know, if
they don't feel by valued
Speaker:by anybody else, they
can feel valued by me.
Speaker:Right. And I think that that's
a really, that's a really,
Speaker:really big piece for me
with our, with our DSPs
Speaker:and being trauma-informed is
like, they'll feel valued by me
Speaker:and they can, and I hope
that they feel listened
Speaker:to by me. And
Speaker:- So one of the things that
I heard there is that, that
Speaker:you've become, and you use,
you connect people to resources
Speaker:that can help them in
their broader life as well,
Speaker:which I think is really also a part of it,
Speaker:because those traumas that A
DSP might have might be about,
Speaker:I lost my daycare, how
can I find some childcare?
Speaker:Yeah, yeah. Those kinds of things.
Speaker:And so being a resource there,
my car just quit working
Speaker:and I need it for work to take
people to the grocery store
Speaker:or whatever, you know,
how can I get it fixed?
Speaker:And finding those things that
can help with those things is,
Speaker:is, is I think a really good good addition
Speaker:that the organization can do. So,
Speaker:- Yeah.
Speaker:So much that's happening.
Yeah. Thank you so much.
Speaker:That's happening in
someone's personal life
Speaker:impacts our work life.
Speaker:Right? And if I am living
paycheck to paycheck,
Speaker:I can't afford for my car to
break down, I can't afford
Speaker:to miss a day of work to, you know,
Speaker:because my kid is sick.
Speaker:Right. I can't, there's
so many things that impact
Speaker:that, that then that retention piece,
Speaker:that turnover piece that,
you know, well, I might
Speaker:as well just throw in the towel
because I keep missing work,
Speaker:or whatever that might be.
Speaker:So how do we come up with
some different solutions
Speaker:for people so that,
that we can, we can be,
Speaker:we can be a little creative, right?
Speaker:There are resources out there, there are
Speaker:connections in the community
that can help people solve some
Speaker:of those, some of those
more immediate issues
Speaker:and long-term issues that impact
Speaker:not only their personal life
that are kind of challenging
Speaker:to deal with, but also
impact their work life
Speaker:and then in turn, impact
the individuals we support.
Speaker:- Olivia, mark just asked
you about some of the things
Speaker:that your organization was doing
Speaker:to support the direct
support professionals.
Speaker:Can you tell us what sorts of trauma
Speaker:and things are you seeing
in your staff members?
Speaker:- Yeah, so I mean, we, we
see literally every kind
Speaker:of social problem you can think of, right?
Speaker:You know, I talked a little bit about some
Speaker:of those more tangible
needs, food insecurity,
Speaker:housing issues, childcare, transportation.
Speaker:But you know, we also have
single moms that are impacted
Speaker:by domestic violence.
Speaker:I've had DSPs in my office the weekend
Speaker:after they've experienced
a sexual assault trying
Speaker:to figure out what do I do with this?
Speaker:Where do I go from here? How
do I show up to work, right?
Speaker:How do I get, get into counseling?
Speaker:Do I talk to a victim's advocate, right?
Speaker:Talking through some of those
things with them, we have DSPs
Speaker:who are veterans, who
are working through some,
Speaker:some complex things, right?
Speaker:DSPs who are grieving
some excruciating losses
Speaker:and still showing up to care for people,
Speaker:people experiencing generational trauma,
Speaker:battling chronic mental
illness, all sorts of things
Speaker:that kind of impact day-to-day
life on a deeper level.
Speaker:That, that then kind of translate
Speaker:to needing more long-term support.
Speaker:And so connecting people
Speaker:to local counseling
services in our community
Speaker:or local domestic violence
shelters, things like that, so
Speaker:that they can get the
assistance that they need.
Speaker:- Yeah. People are going through
a lot of different things,
Speaker:and to be able to come to someone
Speaker:and talk through those
must be extremely valuable.
Speaker:And again, as I said earlier,
just that pla, that safe place
Speaker:where you know that you
can talk about those things
Speaker:and get the support that you
need is, is really invaluable.
Speaker:I would also think that,
you know, you know, we know
Speaker:that some of the people that
we support sometimes, again,
Speaker:show their communication
through challenging behaviors
Speaker:and that that might be triggering
for some staff members.
Speaker:And how do you support staff
members who are kind of
Speaker:juggling that
Speaker:and trying to figure out, you
know, where's the best place
Speaker:for me to work?
Speaker:- Right? Yeah. So that's one of the things
Speaker:that I address actually in the,
Speaker:the trauma-informed care training
Speaker:that we do right at the
beginning when they first show up
Speaker:to our agency, and they're going through
Speaker:that new hire training.
Speaker:I, I have created
Speaker:that new hire training
on trauma-informed care
Speaker:to be very discussion oriented for
Speaker:that reason, right?
Speaker:To be, to be about like, okay, so
Speaker:how do you handle things like that?
Speaker:Right? Because, you know,
let's say I am struggling
Speaker:with this thing that's going
on in my personal life, right?
Speaker:And maybe I'm, I'm getting into fights
Speaker:with my partner every single night,
Speaker:and it's really, really hard at home.
Speaker:And so I, I come to work the
next day and I'm stressed out
Speaker:and I'm tired and, and I don't feel good
Speaker:and I'm, I'm super reactive
Speaker:because that's how my
brain is, has been trained
Speaker:to function now, right?
Speaker:Right. Because I'm in this
really contentious relationship,
Speaker:and when someone maybe
Speaker:yells at me at work, right?
Speaker:And an individual I'm
supporting, yells at me at work,
Speaker:man, what do I do?
Speaker:How do I respond to that if I'm used to
Speaker:yelling back, right?
Speaker:I'm used to just leaving,
just walking away.
Speaker:Well, I can't do that. If that person
Speaker:needs 24 7 supervision,
that's not an option for me.
Speaker:Right? And so, right.
Speaker:Figuring out how do I juggle those things?
Speaker:How do I address some of my own things?
Speaker:Or how do I maybe kind of make this,
Speaker:this like mental separation
of, okay, this person
Speaker:is not the person
Speaker:that I'm having these
feelings towards, right?
Speaker:Or how do I, how do I
manage my own emotions?
Speaker:And so, when we go through training,
Speaker:I talk a lot about managing
personal stress, finding ways
Speaker:to manage, manage my own stress,
Speaker:ma finding healthy coping
skills, figuring out,
Speaker:you know, what works for me?
Speaker:You know, maybe it's journaling,
Speaker:maybe it's FaceTiming my best friend,
Speaker:maybe it's walking my dog,
maybe it's exercising.
Speaker:Whatever those things are,
whatever those things are
Speaker:that work for you, doing them, right?
Speaker:Because it doesn't help if
I know what works for me
Speaker:and then I don't do it right.
Speaker:Guilty sometimes, but
Speaker:- As are we
- Figuring out, right?
Speaker:But figuring out the
things that work for you
Speaker:because, you know, in moments of stress,
Speaker:if we can figure out
those things and we can,
Speaker:and we can get good at using our skills,
Speaker:when we have moments of
daily stress in our lives,
Speaker:when we have moments of big stress
Speaker:or trauma, then I know,
Speaker:oh, this is the thing that helps me.
Speaker:When things aren't going
well, this is the thing
Speaker:that calms me down.
Speaker:This is the thing that regulates me
Speaker:because I've been practicing it.
Speaker:Right? So when somebody
at work is, you know,
Speaker:behaving in a way that's
not favorable, right?
Speaker:Or is yelling at me
Speaker:or is, is triggering to me, I,
Speaker:I've been practicing in
moments of low stress
Speaker:or in moments of daily
stress, those skills
Speaker:that are regulating for me.
Speaker:And I can use that in that moment.
Speaker:I can do my deep breathing
or whatever, you know,
Speaker:- It might be that thing that
you, I figured out you do
Speaker:before you come on shift, you know?
Speaker:Exactly. Before, before
you get out of your car.
Speaker:It's like, I'm gonna take three minutes
Speaker:and I'm gonna listen to a
song that's gonna Right.
Speaker:Help me relax or,
Speaker:or get me fired up for whatever
I'm gonna be doing next.
Speaker:Get me in that right mental state to kind
Speaker:of switch gears transition. Yeah.
Speaker:- In baseball, we call
that your walkup music
Speaker:for when you're walking up
with the plate to, to, to hit.
Speaker:Well, same kind of the
thing that'll get you
Speaker:motivated in a good spot.
Speaker:- So yeah. Your hype song. Yeah,
Speaker:your hype song. There you go.
Speaker:- That works for me too. Hype song.
Speaker:Mine would be, by the way, YY Sacks.
Speaker:So if you, if you, you know, look
Speaker:that up sometime, it'll make you laugh.
Speaker:- Okay. Because I,
Speaker:- I always think of life as as fun.
Speaker:So, alright,
Speaker:- So are you gonna change that song?
Speaker:Will that song be the intro music
Speaker:for this podcast then? Just this one?
Speaker:- I don't think we have
permission for that.
Speaker:We have to use it.
Speaker:- It's gotta be like under 15 second
Speaker:clip in order to use it.
Speaker:Something like that. Copyright loss.
Speaker:- We don't, we don't have
the copyright for that. No,
Speaker:- That'd be great though.
Speaker:- It would be hilarious. Alright.
Speaker:Anyway, so, well, Olivia,
Olivia Kaplan, we would love
Speaker:to thank you for joining us today
Speaker:and sharing about trauma-informed care
Speaker:and trauma-informed support.
Speaker:It's, it's, it's, it's
been a gas actually.
Speaker:So everyone out there,
thanks for joining us.
Speaker:I hope you enjoyed this
as much as we did tune in
Speaker:for future episodes about
taking care of our physical
Speaker:and mental health needs as
direct support professionals.
Speaker:All our episodes are available at Spotify
Speaker:and Apple for free.
Speaker:So check out the podcast there,
or you can go to ici.umn.edu
Speaker:and look us up.
Speaker:Just put in the search Wellness Matters
Speaker:and it will pull up our
actual page at the university
Speaker:and it, you can click through, subscribe,
Speaker:and you'll be ready to go.
Speaker:We also invite you to
listen to other podcasts
Speaker:for direct support workers
also developed at the Institute
Speaker:on Community Integration.
Speaker:Take a closer look at Frontline Initiative
Speaker:where there are some
more podcasts for you.
Speaker:- Wellness matters for direct
support is for the health,
Speaker:for wellness, and self-care of
direct support professionals
Speaker:because your wellness does matter.
Speaker:Thank you, and we'll see
you on our next podcast.
